Create scenaries for fms

[TreeHugger]

Hi lscaba,

to my disappointment I had to notice you did not heed my advice to keep it simple and comprehensible. Instead you chose to flood another scenery-making thread with guesswork and half-knowledge. Please take into account these forum discussions are not for the enjoyment of participants only: there are "innocent" readers out there as well. They're looking for solutions instead of juggling pseudo-problems.

That's exactly what made me unhappy: attempting to nail a certain problem is beneficial to all readers, spilling a bucket full of assumptions is not. And I won't even mention the "contributions" of some smc66x, as I'll scroll away that moronic drivel immediately (where is the "ignore"-button?). An attention-deprived kid announcing his "photolistic sceneri" every second day but obviously unable to figure out the most basic scenery commands (let alone spelling)... pathetic.


Now take your planetarium analogy for example: It immediatly collapses under closer scrutiny for these reasons alone:

The visitor of a platetarium remains fixed in his seat; but in a chase view, the camera location moves by definition. Wasn't that what your first wikipedia quote said? - Observer's motion is the key! You won't experience parallaxes within a fixed environment, but you'll notice the absence of them as soon as you start to move. Therefore: swiveling your head in a pano is fine, translating your viewpoint is not. Did you notice none of the commercial simulators provide this feature, despite it beeing technically easy to acchieve? Why is that so?

The distance between stars in space is huge compared to your planes's movement relative to the earth. You will simply not cover the distance required to notice parallax errors in a starlit sky. Same rationale in a planetarium: everything shown is too far away to expect visible parallaxes at all. Therefore: Every seat is a good seat despite minor prespective errors, but switching seats repeatedly during a show will destroy the illusion.
That said, you might get "close" with a pano only showing distant background and a 3D-scenery in the foreground, but how will you blend them over seamlessly?? Albhang? - Sorry, the cross-over is extremely distracting and ugly.

It is astonishing you would ignore my (relevant) flying field example and replace it with your (irrelevant) planetarium example just to make a point (and fail). Instead of quoting half of the encyclopedia britannica you would better use your time to understand what I meant and respond to that. Pen and paper are your best friend when it comes to visualizing geometry. If you honestly believe I'd pick up an intellectual gauntlet, please remember how many illustrated explanations I had to provide until you would swallow the simple fact a spherical panorama needs to be mapped onto a sphere (or be remapped)...



Just on thing to note: I did provide you with a spherical pano .scn-file for your telki scene. This is meant for fixed viewing position only. If you want to experiment with pano and chase view, you will need to develop an appropriate panorama mapping on your own.

Another thing to note: What I said about the FIXED-keyword and the PILOT_POSITION is valid for my .scn-file as well. If you believe it's in error, why did you use it without complaint in the first place? I'd like to improve it if possible, but funnily it works perfect for me (and several thousand users)...

Regards

[smcxx66]

That's sweet iscaba


I ask for a simple question and dont preach at me.
If you don't know what the 5000 stands for .. Then just say
"I don't know"
You still havn't given an answer a simple direct answer.lol

Stop calling me name. Go huge a freaken tree..how do you like that?
or just shut the hell up and don't paticipate.
This is not a thread or placefor you to be calling me names you SOB !!!
I hope that's comprehenciable enough for ya.

They are so many different ways to make a scenery. It might be
imposiable for you..but not for everybody.
You don't the conner on the market of how to make scneries
or useage of FMS.

That's why I ask..so i don't have to guess.
and you still havn't giving a direct answer.
What dose that number represent. ?... freaken Moron


I ask Iscaba what UV stands ment.
It was very helpful. He explained it to me to the best of his knowelge.
It helped me..I know how to map images now.

U V are pionts on a flat surface (image) to be mapped on to an object.
The XYZ are the piont where it gets mapped on to the objects.
Meaning the UV pionts can get stretch distored...such as mapping a
photolistic sphere, cube, cylinder, polygon.

A simple analogy is..it's the same when I tack the 4 coners
of film to a wing, then apply heat to it. The film shrink to the
shape of or cruve of the wing.
On a single color film it won't matter, but if the film has multi sceheme
or colors..you'll notice how it gets distorted.

And hopefully I'll figure out how to get around the 8.5 version
engine. It had limited amount of objects that can be mapped,
otherwise i would have mapped the entire terrain.lol

will gee whiz..it dosn't take a rocket scientist to push a bottom.
Skybox technolgy have been around forever.
So why hasn't anyone up dated the sceneries ???
The CUBE converter had been around for FREE since 2005.
And there's plenty of other converters for $19.00.lol
Why are some the sceries on RC-SiM all wached out ?
And i certainly don't go around calling those people morons

FMS is FREE !!! It's user active
and I'm acrtively using it.lol

if you don't like my sceneries..you don't have to use them.
As far as I know....people download them everyday.

The last I check ..I can convert Aerofly sceneries too.
here's a sample..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLti1cNl1O8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDANpgZRjCU

and cleaview..and preflight...and Refelx.lol...For Free.
hunreds or them.

I'll give you a hint...I use the same .scn file from the Stadiun scenery
(Trivali) to run Clearview's sceneries

And i also posted and another scnery..it's 3d thou..
I like the hotwheel I mapped in there.lol
well...some poeple mapped in R2D2...

I'm not going to be a millionair that's for sure.lol

I share them it people..so they can save money
and buy an extra nitro engine or a gallon of nitro.lol

The pilot position is NOT valid, valid or to my liking in the 3D scenery.
You can't raise it..and leave it on defualt.
As hundred of readers had questioned or complained.
Meaning i have to punch #9 evertime i start FMS or i start a differnent
scenery. As you know..camera posistion is very important in an R/C sim.
Once you get it set to your liking...you kind of wanna leave it or not
have to re set it everytime.

Now i now why the models disappared in the Switz scenery.lol

Here's my progress on UVXYZ comprehension...Iscaba explained it
pretty good. My brain just had to absorb it and I just needed to experinment.

The heli is sitting under that panel...once was the little building.
I changed the UV pionts as Iscaba explained to me.
I also resized the the roof.
Now what you see is the complete .bmp image (building texture)file.
Now I can map in images as i wanted to do. I'm hoping this will
allow me to map in more objects in 3D sceneries and make it look
decent.

[smcxx66]

Check out what I just did...It's in 3D enviorment.

I told you i was going to figure out how to do it...Thanks Iscaba.

Notice those big pixels on top of the picture ?
Notice the grass is all nice and detail still around the model ?
I cram pixels in one panel.lol
and it's only using one .bmp file of a photograph of grass texture.
The same image is also being projected on the entired terrain.
That's what those squares are, pixles zoom way in.

That's what i was saying about how the logo on the raptor
still stays in detail when zoom way in.



even with the zooming way, way in the grass still looks like a picture
of grass.lol

[lcsaba]

Sorry, deleted. Posted again but one posting down.

[smcxx66]

That's great Icsaba..i like what you're doing to it.

It's all been a learnding process for me in the virtaul world..I've flown R/C from the earily 90's. it's a good marriage with
technology and fun.

true i guess with the evirnment being as close to your flying field.
fortunately my flying site is flat and there's no trees around
unless you fly behind the flight line.
Getting familar to landmarks takes a while..but what if you
go visit other's flying site ?

maybe one of these days a sim can simulate rough dirt take off.lol

I pretty much shy away from the 3D environment in FMS becase it
didn't look so good. But the 3d landscap provides that slop soaring
that i image you're trying to get to work in pano types landscap.

This is what i did just with the informations you provide me.



this will cover the entire 3D with maga pixels with jusgt one click.lol
I tried it with over 30000 . it works.
I can adjust it to what ever i want.
it'll also save a lot of maping time

if you increase the uv from 256 to 1024..it'll generate sub quads. (16)
Try it in the photolistic pano..you'll see 16 of the same image
being projected on one panel

I just want to be able to make 1 decent 3D enviorment for FMS.
The challenge is 2.85 engine won't allow me to map in unlimted
objects.

[lcsaba]

Hello TreeHugger,

I am going to respond to your last message but first please clarify what do you mean saying this?

(relevant) flying field example

Is it about real life R/C model airfield, or simulated FMS Landscape airfield?

Or is it a way how to compare the two?

If you can not say: first, second or third please don't respond.

[smcxx66]

My goal is to have a Skybox in the 3D landscaping for FMS.
I'm actaully surprized other people havn't done this.
This proceedure is probably the first thing gamers do,...
to create a skybox before maping the terrain.

so maybe someone already did..and wrote a .scn already.lol

So i might have some questions.lol

some people would ask why ?

will..it's like this, I don't know what the 5000 in the skytex represent.
I know the sky gets distorted or disturb when I change those number.lol
And I do know the sky in FMS gets project in quads like the terrain dose.

I'm guessing the 5000 represent the outter (total) perimeter of the sky.

and i do know when I rotate the mouse aroud in Terragen, it reminds
me of FMS.

as you have suggested and mention Iscaba...There's a perimeter in the skybox.
The model hits an invisible wall and crash.lol...i didn't know that.

here's a picture of one of my model's...obviosuely
there's going to be one in my FMS that's going to look like that, now.
Just push the flick bottom and map..lol

[smcxx66]

Here's my progress

I did manage to make a cube in the 3D landscape..
I guess the building object is a sort of box.lol

anyway, by changing the U V X Y Z and understanding a little better.

I'm still working with squards. Still elementary.lol

this is what i did.

I created those sub quads by increasing the value of the U V.
This will give me better pixel at close range near the pilot.

The X Y Z represent the piont (size) of the object.
Look at what I did with a 512x512 image. I made it big
I put it at the perimeter of the terrain.
This will help in hiding the empty space between the terrain and sky
panel. It will also allow me to push the sky panel away from the
groud..therefore the sky will look better without having to use
fog to blurr the pixel.
Later i can use images of moutain terrains , forrest, city skyline.

I can relocate, resize.. now that i understand it a little bit better.
Thanks to Iscaba.





what's in my .scn file

[lcsaba]

I am out from this FMS testing business because my PC at home crashed, but:
1. I am glad if I could help to you and may be to others.
2. I am doing exactly what you did, the only difference that I am doing this using the upper eight pictures produced with FMS_PL.
(at present at the Telki_FUN it is not so.)

3. What I said before that if you use POSITION command using FMSXYZ the corner points of the four panorama pictures are displayed.
4. Now you have a chance inside the "stadium" make experiments using "objects" like the pylons at my Telki_FUN.
5. If you have objects you can fly around those.

6. What is important for me. If you are flying around the "objects" you can delete FIXED and switch "chase" on/off. If you fly inside the stadium, you can judge if the lack of "motion parallax" ((on the panorama "wall") which shoud be viewed, troubles you or not, is it noticable or not.
This is the controversial issue.

[lcsaba]

Hello TreeHugger

Thanks to your comments I could make a reasonably good combination of a 3D Landscape (“World” with a zero level ground) and a cylindrical panorama picture based background.
(This is not a “traditional” nice FMS panorama Landscape)

I am writing here because before publishing this landscape I would like to inform you.

The key solutions are multi cylindrical background and 32 sided cylindrical mapping.
Other key words are, compromise, distance and speed.

The design goal of this solution is to have an FMS practice course for medium speed aerobatics aircraft flying at low altitudes. (My new model is such.)

The model of this is “Red Bull Air Race course”.
There are colored pylons to fly between them.
The course can be considered as a closed circuit. Therefore the available airspace is limited. Diameter of the TRANSPARENT control cylinder is 400 m, it is visible in the air (blue stripes) and on the ground (circular white stripe). It is recommended to fly below 25m.
I was not able to place some limiting sheet above.

Background is needed to position the aircraft. “Chase” view mode is an option, sometimes it is useful to use. Therefore something has to be said about “spatial relations distortion” and “lack of motion parallax”.

There are four cylindrically positioned set of TEXTURE files.

The third is a set of low pictures (64m high). Those are the low parts (1/4) of the upper eight pictures created by FMS_PL from the cylindrical panorama picture. The sky is black.
The pictures are arranged around a circle, diameter of which is 600m to keep the angle of view constant.
All of those can be considered as one picture displayed by FMS its normal way, like one sheet of a “Tree” or the “author” or “sailboat” at Ocean Site.

The analogy of this solution is “Cyclorama”. There is one in Hungary it is worth while to have a look on it.
http://www.budapest360.hu/feszty_panoramahu.htm (panoramas/Feszty cyclorama)
This is a cylindrically arranged painting, size of which 120m*16m. The diameter of the visitor’s platform is 16m. Visitors have to walk around. There is a diorama front arrangement.

Therefore I can claim that as “spatial relations” are concerned Telki_Fun is perfect if the user can accept the fact that the background is a circular picture and not a set of 3D objects.

The forth layer is the sky cylinder at a distance of 1200m. Motion parallax can be observed if the camera is moving, clouds are moving behind the buildings and hills.

The first layer is a transparent cylinder to protect the forbidden air space.

Last but not least let see the problem of the “lack of motion parallax” effect.
Compromise is that if the reference object is very far from the observer and near to the background the effect is negligible.

If not I selected three solutions.

First: Create a 3D object from the object cut out from the picture, (like the trees at Telki) and replace the empty space on the panorama picture with an appropriately created one. At Telki_FUN there are two trees like this (no parallax error because the copy of the trees are deleted).

Second: delete and replace the object on the panorama picture.

The third solution is a picture on the fourth layer. This is 2D picture but located behind the transparent wall of the restricted air space. Therefore the problem which can be seen at some 3D FMS landscapes, namely flat 3D objects, can not be observed.

There is only one texture file of this type, not more because I have reached the limit of FMS, no more POSITION command can be inserted.

My goal was either to display the objects by FMSXY. This is the reason why the sky is projected to an eight sided cylinder defined by absolute coordinates. Doing this the number of position commands can be kept below the limit; therefore the relevant objects can be processed by FMSXYZ. The position of pylons can be modified using FMSXYZ.

If you after this are curious to see the result the URL is at:

http://www.sztaki.hu/~csaba.laszlo
File is Telki_FUN.ZIP

This is a not too big ZIP file, because the relevant BMP files are “small” and the sky pictures are indexed.

(((Remark for other readers if any: If you like this solution, it is easy to make similar if the angle of view at the relevant objects is small enough. I am convinced that some reflex type spherical pictures will do. The picture quality might be degraded using FMS_PL to produce the 16 pictures, otherwise manually has to cut out the eight pictures. The upper eight has to be used to produce pictures x-x and x-xA by picture editing.)))